Sept. 10, 2013

Tuesday morning brought Day Two of intense questioning from Charles Boney. It also brought a large number of onlookers.

At a glance, the population of the courtroom in the past two days looked to be about double what it's been on a "normal" day of this trial. There were a number of people from the neighborhood who showed up just to see what all the "David Camm" fuss has been all about, including the cashier at the family-owned sandwich shop across the street from the courthouse, as well as a teacher and several students from a high-school criminal justice class. They joined the media and family members inside the courtroom – all listening to hear what star witness Charles Boney had to say.

But before testimony would begin, Judge Jonathan Dartt would have a stern warning for the people in the courtroom – particularly David Camm and Charles Boney.

Yesterday I mentioned that there was a stare-down between Camm and Boney the moment the two saw each other in the courtroom. A similar incident took place at the end of the day yesterday afternoon. At one point, the attorneys met to whisper a private conference at the judge's desk.

While they were speaking, Camm and Boney appeared to lock eyes again.

And they stared. They didn't say anything. They didn't gesture. They just stared. Not angry stares or heated stares. They just stared at each other with dead, eye-to-eye, emotionless expressions from opposite sides of the room.

There were whispers and murmurings from some of us in the media. The attorneys and the judge appeared to be oblivious to what was happening, but moments later, a couple of the sheriff's deputies stepped into their line of sight. The stare was broken.

Well apparently, we weren't the only ones the incident made an impact on. This morning, Judge Dartt addressed the situation.

"That made the jury very uncomfortable," he told the attorneys.

Richard Kammen, Camm's defense attorney, told the judge that it was Charles Boney who initiated the stare-down, but that he'd already talked to Camm about it.

Moments later, when Camm and Boney were both in the room (and before the jury arrived), the judge addressed the entire courtroom.

"These trials are emotional," he said. "There's no doubt about that."

He added that yesterday afternoon, "Mr. Boney and Mr. Camm decided to have a stare-down."

"That's not something that's going to occur," he added.

He said that "for the most part" Mr. Camm and Mr. Boney have been obedient to the rules of the court – and technically this was probably not a violation – but it was going to end. He added that law enforcement would be free to step between their line of sight whenever it appeared that it might happen again.

The discussion concluded, the jury was brought in at 9:35 a.m.

Witness: Charles Darnell Boney (cont'd)
Convicted murderer of Kim, Brad and Jill Camm

David Camm's alleged accomplice

NOTE: This blog combines some of the cross-examination of Charles Boney given late yesterday afternoon with cross examination given today.

Defense attorney Richard Kammen confronted Boney about his release from prison in 2000, asking if it was "story" that after he got out of prison that he planned to be a "law abiding citizen."

"That was my intention," Boney replied.

"The truth is, Mr. Boney, you weren't during this time, a law abiding citizen," Kammen said, adding that he would go on to commit a number of federal and state crimes.

"You began selling guns, right?" Kammen said, pointing out that it was illegal for Boney to even own a gun.

"Yes sir."

Boney went on to admit that from Sept. 2000 to 2004, he was selling guns virtually every month, making an average of $3,000 a month from the sales. He went on to admit that he carried a backpack containing guns and "other things people use in crimes." Boney said he carried a gun practically everywhere except work.

The testimony turned to Boney's claim that he met David Camm in July 2000 during a pickup basketball game at Sam Peden Community Park in New Albany, Ind.

"You have not been able to identify a single person who you claim could identify you at that park," Kammen said.

"That's correct," Boney replied.

Kammen turned to his attention to the years after the crime, noting that Boney "assembled" a lot of information about the case, including reading a book, reading news coverage and watching television shows about the case. Kammen pointed out the claim that Boney had six or seven boxes about the case in his cell at the county jail.

"So from 2000 to 2005, you probably watched the events of this case very, very carefully," Kammen said.

Boney admitted that this was true.

Kammen addressed Boney's claim that he ran into Camm at The Better Way, a food market in New Albany a couple of weeks before the murders. Boney testified on Monday that Camm pelted him with questions about his criminal history and asked him to get him a clean gun, before taking him to his home.

"And he has a convicted felon-armed robber-drug dealer drive to his house?" an incredulous Kammen asked.

"That's correct sir," Boney replied.

Then the cross-examination came to the events of Sept. 28, 2000 – the night of the murders.

Under questioning, Boney testified that he had been wearing jeans over cargo shorts. An angry Kammen pointed out that it was one set of clothes over another and asked Boney if he wore them "because that's what criminals do."

Special Prosecutor Stan Levco objected, claiming that Kammen was being "argumentative."

"It's not argumentative," Kammen replied. "It's cross examination!"

Boney spoke up.

"You're basically dictating to me what I should know," he said.

"I'm dictating to you what you DO know because you did it before!" Kammen said.

Boney would go on to testify that after the murders, he was extremely worried because he knew his sweatshirt – the one with his nickname, "Backbone," in the collar – had been found at the scene and might be tied to him. He said he continued to follow the case – and Camm's first trial – closely.

"This was a big deal," Kammen said. "This was a huge, huge media case…and every day must have been just waiting for the shoe to drop."

"Yes sir," Boney said.

"But the shoe didn't drop, did it?" Kammen asked.

Boney agreed. David Camm was convicted.

"And you must have breathed a huge sigh of relief?" Kammen said.

"Yes sir," Boney replied.

Boney testified that, some time later, he later had a court appearance on another case, and hired Stan Faith – the prosecutor in the first David Camm case – to be his attorney.

"You probed him for intelligence, isn't that true?" Kammen asked.

Boney agreed, testifying that he asked Faith if he thought David Camm's conviction would ever be reversed. Ultimately, the case was reversed, and Keith Henderson became the Floyd County Prosecutor.

"You heard Mr. Henderson say that he was going to have people take a look at this case again," Kammen said.

In 2003, Boney testified that he was stopped by a female police officer who told him that some people wanted to talk to him. He was taken to speak with Wayne Kessinger, an investigator for the prosecution, and Detective Gary Gilbert.

"Your worst fears had come to pass," Kammen said.

"Yes sir," Boney replied.

Kammen asked Boney about an unpublished autobiography Boney had written in prison. One of the chapters was called "Doing Time" and had a picture with three stars and a clock set to 8:00.

"In prison culture, sometimes stars refer to bodies," Kammen said.

"No sir," Boney replied. "Teardrops."

Kammen then referenced the time.

"You didn't pick 7:00, did you?" he asked. "You didn't pick 9:00, did you? You picked 8:00!"

Boney replied that he didn't "pick" anything.

Kammen peppered Boney with questions about an on-camera interview he had with Carrie Harned, then a television reporter for the local NBC affiliate in Louisville, Ky. The interview took place sometime after the initial police interview. Under questioning, Boney admitted that he told her lies during the interview about not knowing how his sweatshirt appeared at the scene.

"You were calm with her the way you are calm today?" Kammen asked.

"Yes sir."

Kammen asked Boney if he "looked the camera in the eye."

"Yes sir."

"You are an accomplished liar, isn't that true?" Kammen asked.

"I've been Pinocchio, yes," Boney replied.

Kammen then asked Charles Boney about a later 2005 interview he had with Gary Dunn, an investigator for David Camm's defense team. During that interview, Boney admitted that he told Dunn that his DNA and fingerprints would not be found at the crime scene because – if they were – it would mean that he was there (and he claimed he wasn't.) Boney called this claim a "bluff."

"On March 3, that bluff got called," Kammen said, pointing out that Boney's DNA and palm print were indeed found at the scene.

"Yes sir," Boney replied.

Boney was called in for questioning by law enforcement again. Kammen pointed out that the investigators weren't interested in the theory that Boney committed the crimes himself.

"The questioning always was, what was the connection between you and David Camm," Kammen said. "Isn't that true?"

Boney replied that it was.

"I do believe I said that David Camm was the shooter and that's all I'm telling you," Boney said.

Boney testified that he asked for a lawyer – specifically Stan Faith – but he was told that Faith would have a conflict of interest. After repeated questioning about what happened on Sept. 28, 2000, he asked for a pen and paper to write it all down.

"They were happy to leave you alone with your pen and paper, true?" Kammen asked.

"Yes sir," Boney replied.

Kammen then pointed out a number of inconsistencies in the account Boney gave investigators at that time. Boney allegedly told investigators that Camm was driving a black Bronco when he met Boney at The Better Way store, but he said this was Kim Camm's car – a car Kammen said Camm never drove. Kammen said that in March 2005, Boney claimed Camm was driving a Buick Le Sabre the night of the murders (in actuality, he was driving a company truck.)

Kammen then pointed out that he told investigators at that time that he never touched Kim Camm on the night of the murders.

"And your answer was no?" Kammen asked.

Boney replied that this was correct.

"And it's not today?" Kammen asked. "That's your story?"

"Yes sir," Boney replied.

"That's your bluff," Kammen said.

"No bluff, sir," Boney replied.

In early March, Boney testified that he had a private meeting with his sister, his mom, and Myron Wilkerson, an Indiana State Police officer and relative by marriage. Boney testified that Wilkerson warned him that he was a black man that could be charged with the death of a white woman and her two children – that he was the "perfect candidate for the death penalty" and that he was "playing games with your grave." He also, according to Boney's testimony, told him he could either be a defendant or a witness.

Kammen went on to point out additional alleged inconsistencies in the story Boney was telling investigators at this time, claiming that Boney told them there were three meetings with Camm at The Better Way convenience store. He also claimed Boney told investigators he met David Camm at 5:30 p.m. at the store on the night of the murders, when the Schwan's delivery man testified that he met with David Camm at his home at 5:30 p.m.

Kammen said Boney couldn't remember where he met David Camm, or the dates and times, but he could remember placing Kim Camm's shoes on top of the Bronco.

"You remembered the shoes and the socks, didn't you?" Kammen demanded.

"Ms. Camm didn't have on socks," Boney replied.

Kammen then walked Boney through his conviction for the murders in 2006, as well as David Camm's second conviction for the same murders in a separate trial about a month later.

In 2008, Kammen said, Boney was in prison.

"And you had a visitor, didn't you?" Kammen asked.

Boney said he was visited by Wayne Kessinger, who was still an investigator for the Floyd County Prosecutor's Office at that time. Boney said they talked for about 90 minutes.

Kammen asked if the investigators were afraid David Camm's second conviction would be reversed by the Indiana Supreme Court.

"That's correct, sir," Boney replied.

"They were wanting your help, right?" Kammen asked.

"That's fair to say," Boney answered.

(Moments later, Boney would deny that he was ever offered any sort of deal for his testimony.)

David Camm's second conviction WAS ultimately reversed in 2009 (after all, that's why we're all here.) Boney testified today that in Nov. 2009, he had an on-camera interview with Ben Jackey, a reporter for the local CBS affiliate in Louisville, Ky.

"You talked about all of this as being a poker game, isn't that true?" Kammen asked.

Boney replied that this was fair to say.

Near the end of Boney's testimony, Kammen played an audio recording of something Charles Boney admitted he said during a Nov. 2013 deposition he gave with Kammen and other investigators present. It was a brief clip that included Boney saying the following words:

"There's no one in this room who can stop me from going home."


"How?" Kammen asked, on the recording. "Are you going to escape?"


 Boney (on the recording) replied that – no – he was going to do it through the legal system.

Jury Questions for Charles Boney

Moments later, the jury was invited to submit questions for Charles Boney. Below is a partial list of those questions, along with summaries of his answers. The questions have been summarized and are NOT provided in their exact wording.

Question: What types of guns did you carry in your bag?
Answer: Mostly automatics -- .45s, .380s and five-shot revolvers.

Question: How did you get the scrape on your knee on the night of Sept. 28, 2000?
Answer: The scrape came directly from the fall after he tripped on Kim Camm's shoes.


Question: Why didn't you call 911 after witnessing the murders.
Answer: "Because I was a coward. I was afraid. I was afraid of my return to prison."


Question: How did Mala Singh's blood get on your sweatshirt.
Answer: Boney said his girlfriend at the time, Mala Singh, was a diabetic, and often gave herself shots.


Question: Why did you later visit the Camm family graves?
Answer: Boney said it was his own way of telling them "I was sorry for not coming forward." He also said he just wanted to find them.


Question: Did he have any association with David Camm before seeing him at Sam Peden Community Park months before the murders?
Answer: None.


Question: Was he close to David Camm's brother, Danny Camm, when they went to the same school as kids?
Answer: "Not really. He was an unconventional choice for my social circle."


Question: Did you deliver the clean guns to David Camm loaded?
Answer: "Yes. Both times."


Question: Why would you sell a loaded gun?
Answer: Boney said he always did this, but later added, "I think it's quite dangerous, seeing the aftermath – the aftereffect."

Boney was excused from the stand a short time later.

Witness: Richard Hammer

Indiana State Police Trooper
Works in Indiana State Police Crime Lab

Just before lunch, Richard Hammer took the stand.

"You are the longest serving Indiana State Police officer in the state?" asked Special Prosecutor Stan Levco.

"Yes sir," Hammer replied.

Hammer explained that he specialized in making shoe print comparisons and determining what shoes they came from. He said he focuses on class characteristics (such as the shape of the sole, the design of the shoe pattern and rubber injection points), as well as individual shoe characteristics (the wear of the shoe, as well as any punctures or scratches.)

Hammer said that in April 2001, he examined the shoes David Camm was wearing on the night of the murders. Levco presented Hammer with bags of evidence containing the shoes, and showed him a photograph of a partial bloody shoe print taken from the Camm garage.

Levco then asked Hammer if he could determine if the shoe print was made by one of Camm's shoes. Hammer ultimately determined that the class characteristics were the same, but he couldn't find any shared personal characteristics. His ultimate finding? It COULD have been the same shoe, but he couldn't definitively say it was the same shoe.

Defense attorney Stacy Uliana rose to cross examine Hammer.

"Can you tell me where in the garage that footprint is located?" Uliana asked.

Hammer said no. Uliana had no further questions.

Witness: Kathy Boone

Indiana State Police Crime Lab

On Tuesday afternoon, the jury heard brief testimony from Kathy Boone, a forensic scientist from the Indiana State Police Crime Lab who specializes in testing fibers.

She testified that fibers found on Boney's sweatshirt shared similarities with carpet fibers taken from the bedroom in the Camm home, but she could not definitively say they came from the same place.


Witness: Rod Englert
Retired Homicide Detective

Crime Scene Reconstructionist and Blood Spatter Expert

Late in the day, attorneys prepared for the appearance of Rod Englert, the prosecution's top blood spatter expert. Englert is a retired homicide detective, and currently acts as a crime scene reconstructionist and a nationally known authority on blood spatter. According to its Web site, Englert's business, Englert Forensic Consultants, "specializes in crime scene reconstruction, officer involved shootings, homicides, suspicious deaths, bloodstain pattern analysis, bullet trajectories, and ballistics in both civil and criminal proceedings."

A display and numerous props were set up in front of the jury in anticipation of Englert's arrival.

Before Englert (and the jury) was brought into the courtroom, Kammen expressed his disdain for the witness in front of the judge.

"Quite candidly, we've seen this show," Kammen said. "We think that this demonstration is irrelevant…he's going to be throwing blood around."

He added that he wanted to submit all of Englert's props into evidence to "capture the irrelevancy of it."

"At some point some appellate court is going to call his show for what it is," Kammen said.

Special Prosecutor Stan Levco disagreed.

"I think he clearly is going to show that he's an expert," Levco said, adding that, if an appellate court was going to clamp down on Englert, "they would have done that by now."

A short time later, both the jury and Englert were brought into the courtroom.

Englert testified that he was a blood pattern analysis expert who had testified as an expert over 400 times in the U.S.

Levco asked him how he approaches a crime scene investigation.

"When you go to a crime scene, everything has to stop," Englert said, adding that people must be kept out of the scene and investigators must answer the "who," "what," "when," "where," and "how" of the crime.

Englert went on to identify different types of blood stains, such as passive passive patterns, spatter (blood that is airborne) and transfer patterns (such as blood that rubs up against something.)

The testimony then turned specifically to spatter and its three types: low-velocity, medium-velocity and high-velocity. Englert gave examples of each. Low-velocity spatter would be like blood from a nose-bleed. Medium-velocity spatter would come from head trauma, such as someone being beaten with a baseball bat.

Englert said high-velocity spatter would come from someone who was struck by a bullet. He said it creates "very fine, and sometimes invisible particulates."

"Sometimes it creates a mist," he said. "Sometimes it creates nothing."

He then went on to demonstrate each type of blood spatter type, using a poster board and stage blood. Several people in the courtroom stood to watch the demonstration.

Court was dismissed for the day after the demonstration. Englert is expected to re-take the stand Wednesday morning.

Travis K. Kircher is a Web Producer for WDRB News. He can be reached at