LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) -- Kentucky Sen. Whitney Westerfield, R-Fruit Hill, on Friday presented to lawmakers two versions of a proposed law that would at least temporarily remove a gun from someone if they are deemed a threat to themselves or others.
The proposals were passionately backed by victims of gun violence, some legislators and even the chief of the Jeffersontown Police Department.
But Kentucky has a Republican-dominated legislature with many citizens and officials who stand firm in their objections to any laws they see as threatening the 2nd Amendment and any violation of gun rights.
One legislator even pointed out that Friday is the 232nd birthday of the 2nd Amendment being ratified.
"Gun control is not and has never been the answer," said Rep. Savannah Maddox, R-Dry Ridge. "You're talking about a proposal that, at a bare minimum, has the potential to violate at least three constitutional rights in addition to due process and the presumption of innocence."
Westerfield's proposed bill is similar to so-called "Red Flag" laws that have been passed in other states, but it has several key differences. Backed by Sen. David Yates, D-Louisville, the proposal has two options, which were presented to the interim joint judiciary committee.
One would be for someone to initially notify police of a person who is a perceived danger to themselves or others. A police officer would then contact that individual and give them the option of keeping their gun but attend a hearing within two hours for a judge to determine if there is enough evidence to at least temporarily take the weapon away.
The other option would be for the person to give their guns to police immediately and then have a judicial hearing within a week, Westerfield said.
Westerfield acknowledged the proposals have potential problems, such as provoking someone to commit an act of violence after telling them they can keep their guns but face a hearing to remove them in a matter of hours.
Sen. Whitney Westerfield, R-Crofton.
But Westerfield maintained that a discussion on proposed solutions was necessary given the amount of mass shootings and other gun violence.
"We should be able ... to come up with some solution to respect the 2nd Amendment rights while still protecting that individual from themselves or from the harm of others from that person," Westerfield said. "... I believe it is your obligation to not be afraid to have difficult conversations about the toughest issues."
A bill has not been drafted yet for the 2024 General Assembly in part because it is changing based on opinions of police, judges, lawyers and legislators. The proposed law to help family and friends remove a weapon from a gunowner who may be an immediate danger is called CARR, which stands for Crisis Aversion and Rights Retention.
So far, CARR laws have been enacted in 19 states.
Gun laws have been proposed previously in Kentucky - including a similar one in 2019 - and talk re-surfaced in April after a man walked into Old National Bank in downtown Louisville shot and killed five people and hurt eight others.
When LMPD released the investigation file into the Old National Bank shooting, the file included a large collection of the shooter's personal writings that noted his struggle with mental health. He also wrote about his desire to "make an impact" and show how easy it was for someone with his level of history of mental illness to purchase a gun.
Westerfield's proposal was buttressed by an impassioned plea from Whitney Austin, a Louisville native who survived being shot 12 times in a mass shooting inside a bank in Cincinnati in 2018.
After the shooting, Austin founded the Whitney/Strong Foundation, a nonprofit that works to end gun violence.
"It is time that we lift up those who paid the price for our collective inability to solve this problem," she said. "It is time for those, perhaps some in this room, with the tendency to say "no, we're never," even before fully understanding all of the options to think about how we the collective can help save those innocence lives."
And Jeffersontown Police Chief Rick Sanders, who has been in law enforcement for 40 years, told lawmakers he is a strong 2nd Amendment advocate but there are people who have mental illnesses who should not have access to weapons.
"This is something we are bringing to the table to try and save lives," he said. "There are some people that have shown they are suffering and we need to take the firearm away form them before they can hurt themselves or others."
It also received strong, emotional support from Sen. Karen Berg, D-Louisville, whose son, Henry, died by suicide in December 2022:
You can watch the full video of her comments below:
Sen. Karen Berg spoke as the state senate considered a "red flag" law for Kentucky.
CARR has already come under criticism from some state GOP groups and officials before the hearing.
And some legislators immediately seized on the proposal, arguing the law would take guns away from someone who has not committed a crime.
"Fundamentally, this bill takes away a constitutional right from a citizen based on the prediction they might commit a crime in the future," said Rep. Jason Nemes, R-Middletown. "This person has done nothing wrong. They have not committed a crime. ... And we are taking their constitutional rights away, perhaps indefinitely."
Westerfield responded that people arrested for allegedly breaking the law have not been convicted of a crime and are presumed innocent. He also noted these would be civil, not criminal, claims, and both police and a judge have to be convinced the person is a danger.
"We've seen instance after instance after instance after instance of someone who was not mentally well who until the moment they snapped ... lawfully possessed a firearm," he said. "If you knew that the shooter at the bank in April was going to go shoot all those people, if you knew in advance, I don't think anyone in here would arm him."
Related Stories:
- Kentucky doesn't have a 'red flag' law. Will a mass shooting in Louisville change that?
- Louisville leaders searching for common ground in gun control debate in wake of mass shooting
- Former Louisville mayor Jerry Abramson calls for stricter gun laws following mass shooting
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