Council members ask LMPD chief to be 'honorable' and testify about city's protest response

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) -- Members of Mayor Greg Fischer's administration must testify in an open session as part of Louisville Metro Council's investigation into the Fischer administration's handling of the fatal shootings of Breonna Taylor and David McAtee and months of protests for racial justice, a judge ruled Tuesday.

What happens next, however, is still unclear.

Weeks ago, after Metro Council's Government Oversight and Audit Committee sought testimony from Chief of Public Safety Amy Hess and Louisville Metro Police Department Interim Chief Robert Schroeder, attorneys for Hess and Schroeder argued that their clients testifying in a public hearing could jeopardize their positions in pending lawsuits and expose the city to more liability.

Circuit Court Judge Audra Eckerle, however, ruled that both Hess and Schroeder "can testify before Metro Council without subjecting themselves or government to any harm."

"Equity cannot allow a civil lawsuit before an appointed authority to trump elected government oversight of key, senior public officials," Eckerle wrote in the ruling.

Hess and Schroeder on Aug. 3 were expected to testify before the Government Oversight and Audit Committee but walked out of the hearing on the advice of their attorneys, who cited a federal civil rights lawsuit the American Civil Liberties Union filed against Metro Government, Fischer, Schroeder and several LMPD officers. Instead, the attorneys said Schroeder and Hess were willing to testify publicly later, or answer questions immediately behind closed doors in executive session.

Council members denied that offer, demanding an open session.

"There will be nothing hidden from the public regarding this matter," said Councilman Brent Ackerson, D-26, during the hearing. "Zero. Plain and simple. So, with that being said, if you’re not going to proceed, there’s the door.”

After Schroeder and Hess walked out, all of the committee members, except one, voted to formally subpoena them to compel open testimony. In response, Fischer and Metro Government filed a lawsuit against Metro Council arguing that the Kentucky Open Records Act allows for testimony to be given in private, executive session when it concerns matters under litigation.

In Tuesday's ruling, Eckerle said that Hess and Schroeder, as witnesses subpoenaed by Metro Council, "do not have a right to insist that their testimony occur privately, shielded from public view."

"The testimony is virtually inevitable, and it should proceed before it becomes irrelevant," Eckerle concluded.

Councilman Anthony Piagentini, R-19, said the decision puts the Council committee closer to getting the answers it desires from the Fischer administration.

"It clearly spells out how clearly we were on the right side of the law," he said.

The committee scheduled a hearing for Sep. 16 to get testimony from Schroeder and Hess.

"All we want is the honest truth," Ackerson said. "Just tell us what happened and why."

Jean Porter, a spokesman for Mayor Fischer, said Hess will likely agree to testify in the hearing next week.

"As we previously indicated – as recently as Friday, Sept. 4 – to both the Committee and the Court, Chief Hess was and is willing to waive the open meeting exemption and testify in open session," Porter wrote in a statement. "Thus, we do not see it necessary to ask the Court of Appeals to review the Court’s decision."

However, Schroeder could appeal Eckerle's ruling. His attorney, Joey Klausing, has not yet commented.

"I believe him to be an honorable man, I really do, and I would call on him to do the honorable thing," Piagentini said of Schroeder.

Council members worry a lengthy appeal by Schroeder might mean they can’t get his testimony at all, since he’s set to retire on Oct. 1. While Piagentini and Ackerson said there's considerable "gray area" when it comes to the rules of council subpoenas, they said state law seems to bar them from seeking the testimony of a former city employee.

With that uncertainty setting in, some members now have sights set on subpoenaing other LMPD commanders.

While some members, such as Ackerson and Piagentini, were ready to issue subpoenas for those commanders during the Tuesday meeting, other committee members were more hesitant. Ultimately, the committee decided to invite the lieutenant colonels and majors to the upcoming meeting, where they'll be permitted to offer voluntary testimony. If they don't show, council will then may consider formal subpoenas, Ackerson said.

"In my opinion, and in my interactions with LMPD, they are dying for this truth to get out there to the public," added Piagentini. "They want the truth to get out there, and they have not had the opportunity to do that, because we get sued by their leadership when we try to put the truth out there."

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