Defense rests in Crystal Rogers murder trial after claim of 'coercive interview tactics'

BOWLING GREEN, Ky. (WDRB) – Lawyers for two men charged in the Crystal Rogers murder case concluded their defense Thursday by calling witnesses who spotlighted a lack of DNA evidence and raised concerns about police questioning.

The eighth day of the trial ended with renewed motions by attorneys for Brooks Houck and Joseph Lawson for a directed verdict of acquittal – a request that argues there’s not enough evidence for a jury to convict.

Judge Charles Simms III once again denied those motions, saying there is "sufficient evidence” to send the case to the jury. The 15-person panel is scheduled to return at 9 a.m. CDT Monday morning, when closing arguments are expected.

The defense called two expert witnesses Thursday. The first, cognitive psychologist Jeffrey Neuschatz, testified that he noted more than 650 coercive tactics in Kentucky State Police interviews he reviewed.

Neuschatz said there were 314 improper techniques used during KSP’s June 2023 interview of Charlie Girdley, such as promises of leniency and attempts to manipulate Girdley by mentioning his family.

"It was very coercive," he said, in response to a question from defense attorney Brian Butler, who represents Houck, Rogers’ boyfriend at the time she went missing from Bardstown on July 3, 2015.

Girdley admitted during his testimony in this month’s trial that he changed his stories multiple times and lied to investigators. But he said on the stand that Steve Lawson told him once that Brooks Houck was looking to "get rid of his old lady." (Steve Lawson was convicted last month for tampering with physical evidence for helping his son, Joseph, move Rogers’ car after she vanished.)

Under questioning from prosecutor Shane Young Thursday, Neuschatz acknowledged that coerced statements can still be true and the interrogation techniques used by state police are legal.

Young also emphasized that Girdley and Heather Snellen – whose police interview Neuschatz also said was coercive -- testified to the grand jury in this case free or any coercion or pressure by investigators.

A former girlfriend of Steve Lawson, Snellen testified last week that she was at Lawson's home in 2017 when she overheard the Lawsons talking about "moving a body at the Houck farm."

Neuschatz said the interviews he watched in this case were "some of the most coercive interview tactics I've ever seen."

Referring to Girdley, Young said he was simply told: "Please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the truth."

Women’s underwear found at search site

The second expert witness, former Louisville police detective Denver Butler, was called by Houck’s legal team to analyze roughly a dozen searches by state and federal authorities following Rogers’ disappearance.

Butler, who is not related to defense attorney Brian Butler, reviewed various law enforcement searches from 2015-22, including a "very manpower intensive" search of a property near the Houck farm in 2016.

He repeatedly confirmed a lack of DNA and other evidence tied to Crystal Rogers.

Butler said tests on Rogers’ car found no DNA belonging to the Lawsons, but he testified that hairs found in the car’s driver’s seat and on a floorboard were not tested but should have been.

Butler also revealed that investigators found women's underwear that contained hairs under the driveway of a Bardstown house built by Brooks Houck's construction company. That property was the site of a search in August 2021.

Crews also found clothes under a sidewalk there, according to the testimony. The defense characterized that search as finding no DNA from Rogers. However, Young said no DNA profile could be created — meaning it couldn't be determined whose DNA those items contained.

Brooks Houck is charged with complicity to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence and faces up to 25 years to life in prison. Joseph Lawson is charged with conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence, facing up to 25 years behind bars.

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